tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post5241812933643045197..comments2023-10-25T05:21:38.824-07:00Comments on The Lockerbie Divide: Suliman on Swissy and the Student UnionCaustic Logichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-27851872999422154962011-03-13T16:23:48.166-07:002011-03-13T16:23:48.166-07:00Still no word from Suli on my alleged mix-up betwi...Still no word from Suli on my alleged mix-up betwixt the JSU and LSU. He might be right, but won't help, insisting I should learn Arabic and get beyond the English-language hits. <br /><br />Well, I used Google translate to iron out the words for Studet = طالب <br />Union = الاتحاد<br />and Jamahiriya = جماهيرية. <br /><br />Putting them together I got a lot of hits. One has an official-looking banner with a picture of Gaddafi and labeled Libyan Student Union. <br />http://www.libyansuus.org/<br /><br />When I translate back the Arabic words for JSU above, it gives me Libyan Student union. So that's not helping, making it seem like (and it might be) the same thing. But I'm conflating, Suli charges, surely with the worst of deception in mind!<br /><br />جماهيرية translates Jamahirya <br />جماهيرية translates Libyan. <br /><br />I am not dropping everything to take a one-year crash course in Arabic to sort this out. I suspect, as everything else suggests, that Suli is just a particularly nasty troll, appointed by self or others to cause drama, distraction, and if possible discreditation to the JFM campaign.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-50877831105193029842011-03-10T16:01:01.507-08:002011-03-10T16:01:01.507-08:00Oops, the jump-ship musing re: LSU is in my first ...Oops, the jump-ship musing re: LSU is in my first comment, not the article.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-14118327039539544112011-03-10T15:59:29.579-08:002011-03-10T15:59:29.579-08:00Further responses
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Suliman: Mr. Larson:__OK, n...Further responses<br />--- <br />Suliman: <i>Mr. Larson:__OK, now it seems you have learned something about JSU vs. Libyan Student Union. Is that right, or am I crediting you with too much? </i><br /><br />Me: Yes, too much. I gather you think they're separate, and maybe it's so. <br /><br /><i>Your first homework for the day is to go and eat every remark you made about equating the two. For extra credit, you can consider the applicability of your jump-ship logic to leaders of the JSU. You believe Abdel Jalil is jumping ship, but that does not seem to cross your mind when you find something about some "Libyan Student Union" leader speaking against Gaddafi in Indiana. Yet, you have the gall to put logic in your name? So Gaddafi's ministers can jump ship, his diplomats, too, but not JSU officers, huh?</i><br /><br />Re-read the article, dumb-ass. Right after mentioning Jalil, what do you see? And it's the LSU, presumed same as the sinister JSU, that shows signs (via its members) of breaking from Gaddafi for at least 12 years now. I've seen nothing on the JSU jumping ship, if that's separate. In fact, I find only seven hits total mentioning that group at all, as I said, five of them by you. <br /><br /><i>Now, it is time for your new lesson. and it is about what you call the "equivalent of July 4th." I advised you to consult Swissy on the translation, and if you had followed my advice, you would not be revealing more of your ignorance. What your JFM co-founders were celebrating, and what they call "Student Revolution" is a very different thing from what they call "The Great al-Fatih Revolution," and it is the latter that they treat--unjustifiably--as national independence day. Their al-Fatih revolution has an anniversary of Sept 1, 1969, and it was a military coup. Their so-called student revolution anniversary was April 7th, 1976, and their annual student murders continued thereafter for years. I'm not sure you could do the arithmetic, but the numbers say your partners were formed about 6.5 years after their version of national independence day. So where did you get the equivalence of April 7th to July 4th? I can tell you the answer to that one, if you have trouble locating parts of your own body.__</i><br /><br />Wow, you got me. I don't know my dates and what exactly they were marking. Didn't read close enough, sorry. So JFM, via its "founders," was praising the murder of dissident students in your 2+2+?? = 412 way of thinking, huh? That's real neat. <br /><br /><i>What else do you see in common with July 4th? I did not know that July 4th marks an occasion when US students, on orders of a US ruler in office for 6.5 years, went on a "cleansing campaign" of US universities from non-revolutionary students. But, apparently, you do. I did not know that George Washington, after 6.5 years in office, went to tribal leaders and asked them to storm the university and trample upon other US students. But you do, apparently, and I wish you would expand a little more on your continuing campaign of fumbles, contrivances, and now blatant lies.__Looking forward to your next lesson? I am guessing it will cover some important events, names of April 7th victims of the JSU, and a few pointers on the difference between being expelled for something and being convicted of it. Don't worry about your clutter because it is devoid of any substance and presents no resistance to the foot that's feeding you.</i><br /><br />Wow, when you catch me on something, you really just go off on it, don't you? <br /><br />So again, who here can help me see evidence that the LSU and JSU are different, that the JSU supports terrorism and mob violence etc. (not just refusing to denounce past violence by the government that sponsors them). And any evidence of a functional partnership between JFM and this sinister JSU. If possible, Suliman, we could use actual evidence and not just mental gymnastics and extreme hyperbole. We've all had enough of those.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-37127297272304865342011-03-10T15:43:25.783-08:002011-03-10T15:43:25.783-08:00My response to the above:
Okay, broke down and did...My response to the above:<br />Okay, broke down and did a rough translation of that state-sponsored group marking their version of the foruth of July here, and pro-government message. Even photos show people sitting down. and no lynchings or terrorism. They get/make some of the students sit through a patriotic speech from a government that has committed violence and that you deeply, deeply, deeply loathe. <br /><br />It's the equivalent of a loony-left radical decrying the Boy Scouts as promoters of war, oppression, rape, and genocide. Follow the reasoning they used to get there, and it's twice as good as yours. <br /><br />If I got the JSU and LSU mixed up, and they are separate groups, and Swissy's with the JSU as you say, that means the JFM website is wrong. I thought based on info Swissy gave them, and it says he's an officer with the LSU. If you could show that that is wrong, it would help your hemmorhaging credibility, and help me get past my ignorance. <br /><br />Because seriously, I just don't know and don't have hours for research. It's not, as you say, deception and willful blindness. You've accused this group - or one of them - as supporters of terrorism, and for some reason, I can't just take your word. <br /><br />Again, only you have made the connection with this JSU, or rather as you're now calling it ""General Union of Students of The Great Jamahiriya". I've seen no info on a group of that name at all. Are there three groups here, or is that the same as JSU? The internet, aside from you, is bereft of any mention of terrorism from either/any group, at least in the English-language reports I can read. <br /><br /><i>Make sure to come back and declare there is no evidence of anything called Jamahiriya Student Union.</i><br />Why? Did I do that before? I only said I don't see any sign of them shooting, lynching, or promoting such. <br /><br />And still no sign that an officer in such a body briefly being a committee member of JFM leaves any real lasting taint, or opens any avenue of control by Tripoli. These seem to exist only in your imagination. And other's imaginations, I suppose. Not good enough for me.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-26191516837977437132011-03-10T15:06:29.369-08:002011-03-10T15:06:29.369-08:00Okay, still no help here from Suliman. He did howe...Okay, still no help here from Suliman. He did however post some more comments at the Lockerbie Case. Here's his latest:<br />---<br />Larson further underscores his need to be re-educated, "But so far I don't see any evidence this particular student union is anywhere near as sinister as self-appointed expert Suliman paints it." __"I don't see," is often used to insinuate lack of evidence, but when it comes from an evidently blind person... Maybe, Mr. Larson, we should wait until you learn the difference between the "Libyan Student Union" and the "General Union of Students of The Great Jamahiriya." In the mean time, look up some information about "April 7th," and when you find nothing on your English search engine, be sure to declare that there never were any student killings, then ask the JFM co-founder to translate for you what his Scotland-Newcastle chapter of JSU said just last April, in celebration of the bloody events you so ignorantly dismiss. In addition to making you look like a fool, their statement makes reference to a "cleansing" of the Libyan universities, and it also speaks of Gaddafi disciples all around the world. On your blog, you say you deleted Swissy's name and affiliation "to purify" your list of quotes. Purify as in cleanse, I suppose. How good are you at chanting, disciple Larson? Forget that now, you do much hunting?_Here is the link to your allies, be sure to sink your teeth in what the Revolutionary Crew said:_http://www.libyansu.org.uk/10/news09/edinburgh/7april10/index.htm_Don't forget to notice the domain name is LibyanSU, deigned just for brilliant people like you who can't read the site banner or the signature on the announcements. Make sure to come back and declare there is no evidence of anything called Jamahiriya Student Union. How pathetic! And you expect me to lower myself and debate you on your blog? __The education of Adam Larson will continue, as time permits, and after he tells us how Swissy translates the passage.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-68299089298607259362011-03-08T04:34:17.749-08:002011-03-08T04:34:17.749-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-63970573536019850592011-03-08T04:30:02.359-08:002011-03-08T04:30:02.359-08:00To hear Suliman jabber about it, I half-suspected ...To hear Suliman jabber about it, I half-suspected this "Student Union" would have some - at least alleged - record of terrirst-type activity. I din't think he'd just make it up. <br /><br />But all the hits I found were general news or college-related. Not one that I noticed was on terrorismcentral.com or whatever as a shady front. <br /><br />Now, IF Suliman has any foundation for the rather serioous allegations, it coul just be a world exclusive, and I am offering him a platform to revolutionize the world's understnading with his proveleged information. <br /><br />It's only been one day, but already he's hogging the higher profile of Prof. Black's blog (job assignment guidleines include maximizing viewers, don't they?), still pestering Rolfe to justify her supposed (?) "partnership" with this JSU and Swissy. So far his <b>lame</b> duck-out for violating guidelines in the interest of plausible cover or salvaig credibility, is that I have deleted spam comments in the past. <br /><br />If that continues, I'd find it depressingly predictable. I recommend however, for those watching and ready to learn, that Suliman put the pettiness aside and tell the world what he knows. Actually explain it for once instead of just alluding to it as if it's explained elsewhere, cause it isn't.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-8271337563734834552011-03-07T04:26:39.234-08:002011-03-07T04:26:39.234-08:00Oops, above, the search phrase was given wrong, or...Oops, above, the search phrase was given wrong, org. for union. <br /><br />On bullet angles, keeping it short since we're OT, I don't think it'd work unless we could know just which way she was facing, and positioned, when hit. I suspect it's hard to prove shot origin either way, and so it all came down to prejudice. <br /><br />Clearly whoever did it, Libyan or otherwise, had as a goal to create a diplomatic crisis with Libya.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-49215946486952639312011-03-07T03:47:04.455-08:002011-03-07T03:47:04.455-08:00It's not something I'm intimately familiar...It's not something I'm intimately familiar with, but there appear to be inconsistencies in respect of the angle the bullet entered her body, suggesting the fatal shot wasn't fired from the Libyan embassy at all. I remember a TV documentary making quite a good case. It's mentioned in the wiki article on Yvonne Fletcher, but I recall reading a dedicated article which was quite persuasive.<br /><br />On the other hand, I recall that the discredited arguments from the "Oswald didn't do it" camp in relation to JFK were assumptinos about the angle of the bullet which didn't actually stand up to scrutiny, so I'm not sure how much weight to put on it all.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-9818680043051727722011-03-07T02:06:15.152-08:002011-03-07T02:06:15.152-08:00Rolfe, I've chosen not to get into that one ye...Rolfe, I've chosen not to get into that one yet, but ... As I gather, the evidence Libyans shot her was this:<br />1) Shot while standing within sniper range of the embassy, and of a dozen other buildings<br />2) People were entirely willing to believe it was the Libyans<br />3) A box of the ammunition used was found left in the embassy after they were chased out and left nothing but the one clue to the crime they fervently denied and that makes no sense. <br /><br />So pretty much it's down to #2 as I see it. But I admit I'm not fully versed. I suspect the precedent made framing them for Lockerbie seem completely do-able, from a UK perspective at least.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-91671492874242397772011-03-07T02:02:00.532-08:002011-03-07T02:02:00.532-08:00Okay, Suliman ... It's not amazing, but to sta...Okay, Suliman ... It's not amazing, but to start I did a Google search. "Jamahiriya Student Organization" brings up only seven hits, five from you (four at the Case blog, one a re-posting by "Bunntamas," who claims - jokingly I'm sure - to be in love with you). <br /><br />"Libyan Student Union" brings up many more hits. This is the same group, correct? <br /><br />Among the JSU links is this:<br />http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/ngos/hrs_libyaaj.pdf <br />Libyan abuses included the disappearance of one Ahmed Al-Tholathy of Benghazi, he “became active in the student union <b>parallel to</b> the Jamahiriya Student Union," and in "the group that addressed Colonel Gaddafi calling for radical changes in the Libyan policy." He was arrested without charge and disappeared. <br /><br />"Parallel to" I gather means separate from, perhaps in competition with the JSU? What make you of it, Suliman? <br /><br />The LSU hits yielded stories of a Libyan student in Australia held on pretty serious sex crimes charges, getting assistance from the union. Seems less than indicative of secret terrorist or lynch mob activity. Links unneeded - I'm sure you're familarand find it to be an important clue. <br /><br />Aside from mundane scientific symposiums and student exchanges, here's an interesting story from recent days, on the LSU branch operating out of Lafayette, Indiana:<br />http://www.wlfi.com/dpp/news/local/Students-protest-Gadhafi-regime<br /><i><b>The Libyan Student Union</b> took the streets of West Lafayette to raise awareness about protesters in the streets of Libya.<br />"People are being massacred by the thousands in my country. Already over a 1,000 confirmed killed and it is continuing. People are just realizing what is going on in Libya," said Purdue graduate and Libyan Ahmed Kadura.<br />He said this protest is about bringing awareness to the lives lost at the hands of Libyan Dictator Moammar Gadhafi. Kadura <b>said Gadhafi and his regime have been in power for 42 years.</b> He said now with neighboring countries ousting their leaders, <b>the time for democracy has come for Libya.</b></i><br /><br />The goon-generating scum! Perhaps late defectors, like Mustapha Abdel-Jalil, riding Gaddafi's terror machine until it seemed wiser to leap off it to safety? <br /><br />Well, here's an older sample, a letter of July 1999, by a guy who headed the Dayton unit of the LSU, questioning one member's sudden turnaround from Saudi-influenced Jihadi thinker to a pimp for Tripoli in America, as cover for obtaining technology for the"oppressive" regime. This Jamahiriya Student Union officer felt this kid, likemany others, was thus co-opted into frustrating "the efforts of Libyan people to get rid of Qaddafi." <br />http://www.libyanet.com/v23jul99.htm<br /><br />So I'm not just yet getting the sinister part with the murdering and co-opting and mindless support of the Gaddafi regime. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I haven't found it yet and, at the very least, I think Mr. Swissy's group has a much more mixed and benign record than you have portrayed it as.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-39579700545998501982011-03-07T01:50:43.351-08:002011-03-07T01:50:43.351-08:00Mmmm. Yvonne Fletcher. Now there's a complet...Mmmm. Yvonne Fletcher. Now there's a completely different conspiracy theory. You might like to read up on that one some time.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.com