tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post6211992019675560191..comments2023-10-25T05:21:38.824-07:00Comments on The Lockerbie Divide: Gauci and the Czech PhotoCaustic Logichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-70888550022347993622010-12-18T00:57:16.051-08:002010-12-18T00:57:16.051-08:00The Czech photo I have only seen on their website ...<i>The Czech photo I have only seen on their website DIVIDE. best Edwin Bollier</i><br /><br />Hmm. That's interesting. So did they show you two photos of Abdelbaset, one with a collar and tie, one with an open collar shirt? Memo above says the cops wanted to. I had presumed the one with the tie, cropped, is the Czech photo, and you told them it was the better likeness. But you've never seen it before, in all your years of Lockerbie research? <br /><br />I feel so exclusive to be the first! No, wait - it's put on that I'm feeling.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-31879548205070480002010-12-15T05:42:29.344-08:002010-12-15T05:42:29.344-08:00Attn. Gaustic Logic
The photo was the one discuss...Attn. Gaustic Logic<br /><br />The photo was the one discussed here, the "Czech photo," correct? No, the "Czech photo" has nothing to do with the drawing in the FBI. The FBI was signed artist rendition of a photograph of Al Megrahi. Passport Porträt<br />The Czech photo I have only seen on their website DIVIDE.<br /><br />best Edwin Bollierebolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12681382726604052927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-40582398250208125442010-12-15T00:27:56.874-08:002010-12-15T00:27:56.874-08:00Thanks, Pete, for the translation work there. I...Thanks, Pete, for the translation work there. I've been unable to keep up here lately. <br /><br />Ebol, translated:<br /><i>During my visit to the FBI in Wahington in 1991 a portrait photograph of Abdelbasset Al Megrahi was shown to me in the course of my questioning. I recognised Al Megrahi without a doubt. Parallel to that I was shown an identikit picture which was almost a 100% match for the first portrait!</i><br /><br />The photo was the one discussed here, the "Czech photo," correct? This "identikit" image sounds like the "photofit" or "composite face" image? Robotphoto? I'm confused what it is you're saying was such a suspicious match. <br /><br />Trans:<br />Das Foto war das, das hier, das " besprochen wurde; Tschechisches Foto, " korrekt? Dieses " identikit" Bild klingt wie das " photofit" oder " zusammengesetztes face" Bild? Robotphoto? I' m verwirrte, was es you' ist; ReSprechen war solch ein misstrauisches Gleiches.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-44039984958742487432010-12-13T17:17:04.682-08:002010-12-13T17:17:04.682-08:00Attn. pete
Die Fotos, das Robotbild und die Zeich...Attn. pete<br /><br />Die Fotos, das Robotbild und die Zeichnung vom 13.9.89, habe ich vor dem Besuch bei FBI (1991) bereits bei Swiss Police gesehen. Die Foto von Al Megrahi auf dem Ausweis der University of Wales habe ich erstmals dieses Jahr auf DIVIDE gesehen.<br /><br />Beim FBI habe ich eine gute Porträt Foto von Al Megrahi gesehen und gleichzeitig eine perfekte Zeichnung (nicht Robotfoto). Ich habe zuvor die Zeichnung falsch als Robotfoto bezeichnet. Die Zeichnung von Al Megrahi entsprach fast 100% der Foto Abbildung. Diese Zeichnung habe ich später nicht bei Scottish Police und nicht bei Swiss Police in den Fotobücher gesehen.<br /><br />Das Polizei-Dokument, welches ich bei FBI (1991) unterschreiben musste, war bis auf die Zahl 70%, mit einem Text ausgefüllt gewesen. <br />Die Zeichnung, in Postkarten Grösse, wurde zusammen mit der Foto an das Protokoll angeklammert.<br /><br />by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd, Switzerland, 14.Dec.2010ebolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12681382726604052927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-28498463828419179362010-12-13T10:13:36.531-08:002010-12-13T10:13:36.531-08:00Edwin's reply:
During my visit to the FBI in ...Edwin's reply:<br /><br />During my visit to the FBI in Wahington in 1991 a portrait photograph of Abdelbasset Al Megrahi was shown to me in the course of my questioning. I recognised Al Megrahi without a doubt. Parallel to that I was shown an identikit picture which was almost a 100% match forthe first portrait!<br /><br />I was astonished, and said to my American handler, FBI Attache Robert Fanning, that the identikit picture was practically a tracing of the original photograph...I wanted to hear what he said to that.<br /><br />He could not answer; therefore I decided not to assume too much, and stated that the identikit picture was a 50% match for the original picture. The interviewer said, no more that that, as a percentage? On this I increased, being convinced myself, to 70%. The interviwere said ok and entered "70%" on a preprinted FBI document with attached identikit picture.<br /><br />Whether the identikit picture did correspond to any known published FBI "artist rendition", I doubt it! By my recollection the identikit picture was a perfect tracing of the picture of Mr Al Megrahi.<br /><br /><br />Herr Bollier,<br /><br />Nur um ganz deutlich zu sein:<br />In dem Artikel "Gauci and the Czech Photo" auf diesem Blog, gibt es mehrere Fotos, darunter eine Künstler-Skizze und ein Robotphoto. Können Sie sagen, ob du unter ihnen die in Washington gezeigtene Bilder erkennen?petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05831322202596781171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-60484646577161048162010-12-12T03:24:22.774-08:002010-12-12T03:24:22.774-08:00Attn. pete
MISSION LOCKERBIE:
Bei meinem Besuch ...Attn. pete<br />MISSION LOCKERBIE: <br /><br />Bei meinem Besuch bei FBI in Washington 1991, wurden mir im Laufe meiner Befragungen ein Porträt- Photo von Abdelbaset Al Megrahi gezeigt.( No.?) Ich erkannte Al Megrahi zweifelsfrei. Parallel dazu wurde mir ein Robotphoto (No.?) gezeigt, welches nahezu 100% dem ersten Porträt glich !<br /><br />Ich war erstaunt und sagte zu meinen USA-Begleter, FBI Attache Rober Fanning, dass das Robotbild praktisch gleich nachgezeichnet war wie das original Photo-Bild...<br />Ich wollte hören was er dazu sagte. <br /><br />Er durfte aber keine Antwort geben; also habe ich mich entschlossen nicht zuviel anzunehmen und gab an, das Robotbild entspricht etwa 50% des original Porträts. <br />Der Interviewer meinte nicht mehr in % ?... Darauf erhöte ich, selbst überzeugt, auf 70%. Der Interviewer sagte o.k. und trug auf einem vorgeschriebenen FBI-Dokument mit angeheftetem Robotbild, 70% ein. <br /><br />Ob das Robotbild dem, bekannten veröffentlichten FBI "artist rendition" entsprochen hatte, bezweifle ich ! Nach meiner Erinnerung war das Robotphoto-Bild perfekter nach dem Bild von mr.<br />Al Megrahi,s nachgezeichnet.<br /><br />by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland. URL: www.lockerbie.chebolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12681382726604052927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-34842512232876185092010-12-10T16:15:08.541-08:002010-12-10T16:15:08.541-08:00We don't know that, but I'd be willing to ...We don't know that, but I'd be willing to bet ten dollars on it. There are only so many pics to chose from. <br /><br />I doubt Bollier himself would be any help here. He'd have to know what the buyer sketch and photofit show for hair, and which of the two was closer to that. But something tells me they didn't deal with just him, but rather pulled a Clever Hans thing to have him launder their own desire to use the one closer to what Tony described in the hair and simply less visible in the face area. A little more of the Bollier-style laundering with him, subtle cues... bingo.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-71971295297085517692010-12-06T14:04:58.512-08:002010-12-06T14:04:58.512-08:00So they actually had the Abdusamad picture at the ...So they actually had the Abdusamad picture at the time they used the Czech photo in the photospread? That is bizarre.<br /><br />The Abdusamad picture is in colour, and clearly of better definition. It should be the obvious pick. Surely common sense says it has to be the better likeness. But the cops don't know what Megrahi really looks like, and keep an open mind on whether the blurry black-and-white snap might actually be more like the real man.<br /><br />So they find someone who knows what Megrahi looks like, and ask him. And that someone is Edwin. And he picks the blurry, unrecognisable picture over the decent likeness.<br /><br />I don't suppose we're going to get an explanation of this, no indeedy.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-28026708680464722382010-12-02T02:46:55.122-08:002010-12-02T02:46:55.122-08:00Insane ... "which photo is best - the one tha...Insane ... "which photo is best - the one that looks like him, or the one that looks a bit like Tony's buyer? SIO Henderson doesn't want to "confuse" the poor guy." <br /><br />After some reflection, we know which one they chose. <br /><br />From what I know I'd guess the tie photo is the Czech one, and the open-collar one is the Abdusamad photo. That could easily be wrong but maybe 50/50 that could be just it. If so, the inferences are clear. <br /><br />Good stuff, thanks. Excellent comments action adding value-added excellence.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-68021223793741266982010-11-30T12:56:58.366-08:002010-11-30T12:56:58.366-08:00What's baffling me is that, according to the r...What's baffling me is that, according to the records, the Americans had two different photographs of Megrahi, and got Edwin Bollier to pick out the best likeness:<br /><br /><i><br />Memo M2618 from SIO to WMFO (11/2/91): “…It would be very much appreciated if<br />the Quantico team could introduce as early as possible the photographs of the Libyans to<br />Bollier. It is imperative to determine which photograph of Abdelbaset is the best<br />reproduction of how he looked in December 1988 before the photograph selection is<br />shown to Gauci. Is it the one with the collar and tie or the one with the open neck<br />shirt?...I would wish to avoid misleading the witness Gauci during the photograph<br />viewing, if at all possible. It would avoid the impossible situation of showing two photos<br />of the same suspect…” </i><br /><br /><i>Extract from DCI Bell Diary (11/2/91): “Attended US Embassy with McAdam. Met<br />with SA Reid who produced a number of photos…Two photos of Abdelbaset one with<br />collar/tie, one with open shirt. Point: Bollier in his statement picks out photo 18 stating it<br />is Baset. We must confim the ID and use this to show witness in spread.”</i><br /><br />So what was the other photo, and was it really a worse likeness than the Czech photo?<br /><br />Where's Bollier when you need him?<br /><br />Herr Bollier:<br />als Sie in Februar 1991 in Amerika waren, DCI Bells Tagebuch zufolge, hat man Ihnen einige Fotos gezeigt, in der Hoffnung dass Sie in der Lage wäre, sie zu identifizeren.<br /><br />Herr Bell schrieb dass die Amerikaner Sie zwei Fotos von Megrahi gezeigt hatten, und dass Sie haben einer der Fotos, "nummer 18", in dem er einen Anzug und einer Krawatte trug, als gute Abbild von Megrahi ausgewählt. Könnten Sie für uns das zweite Foto beschreiben? Es wundert mich, dass es ein schlechteres Bild gab als das Foto, das man im 15.2.91-Fotoschau verwendet hat.petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05831322202596781171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-22886858817763320882010-11-28T23:45:59.606-08:002010-11-28T23:45:59.606-08:00From the grounds of appeal report, support for the...From the grounds of appeal report, support for the "three card trick" regarding age:<br /><br /><i>Entry for 11th October 1989. Although redacted, this mentions a meeting with Gauci, DCI Bell and Mr Henderson and makes “reference” to the <b>fact that Tony’s judgement of age may be questionable</b>, and that the number of photographs being shown to him <b>may “confuse matters”</b> </i> <br /><br />Yet for 17 months the confusion continued until the one final point to Megrahi. Suddenly Henderson doesn't want to"taint" it any further. As Rolfe points out above, this is not a good sign as far as procedure is concerned. It was clearly only <i>technically</i> an ID of the Libyan, not a real, firm, repeated ID with better photos used in the other instances. <br /><br />And if Tony were ever that clear, it would look even worse in a way, since Megrahi clearly is not the buyer. Again, he was too short, too young, too slight, too light, has the wrong face and wrong hair, and was was not on Malta at all the day in question.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-32114533734079921792010-11-28T20:01:34.227-08:002010-11-28T20:01:34.227-08:00Yes, the images were made only after Scots police ...Yes, the images were made only after Scots police had talked to Tony and gotten his description. I have no idea why someone would tell you (??) these were made the day of the purchase oor thereabouts. And that was of course 23 November, not 7 December. <br /><br /><i>And these appear to bear a close resemblance, particularly to the photograph picked out by Mr. Gauci</i><br /><br />Disagreed. The sketch and photofit match with Megrahi in the sense that he, too, has a face. The sketch and the "composite face" to me look nothing like each other except in the hair. But Tony said the sketch was a better match to the buyer, while the photofit is slightly closer to resembling Megrahi. <br /><br />Of all photos of the accused, this Czech photo is the closest fit to either, but even then it's not a "close resemblance," in my opinion, not even by the unusual hair.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-73048745749550649492010-11-27T01:22:51.418-08:002010-11-27T01:22:51.418-08:00ebol:
Apology, I hope the information to me, from ...ebol:<br />Apology, I hope the information to me, from Swiss police, that the artist representation was made on 7 November 1988 is incorrectly ? The robot drawing was made on 13.Sept.1989 ?<br /><br />+++ At an even earlier stage, said Mr. Campbell, Mr. Gauci had helped to prepare a photofit and an artist's impression of the purchaser. The artist's impression is Production 427, and the photofit 430.<br />And these appear to bear a close resemblance, particularly to the photograph picked out by Mr. Gauci<br />of the accused. +++<br /><br />by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltdebolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12681382726604052927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-35821025255187625622010-11-25T05:00:40.616-08:002010-11-25T05:00:40.616-08:00MISSION LOCKERBIE:
Dubious, on the same day, Wede...MISSION LOCKERBIE:<br /><br />Dubious, on the same day, Wedensday 7th of December 1988, as Mr Megrahi arrived in Malta, the police provides the Robot-image from the buyer of the sale of clothes by Gauci... (Ref. Swiss police)<br />by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland, URL: www.lockerbie.chebolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12681382726604052927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-59383360919048822652010-11-25T03:03:38.149-08:002010-11-25T03:03:38.149-08:00Three excellent comments. I always have to respond...Three excellent comments. I always have to respond and say something, but I'm tired by now. Didn't even read them all just yet. Thanks for the tip on Dr. Valentine's insights. That's worth updating the post over, quite possibly. Nah ... I like having some of the good stuff stay in the comments to compel people to not miss them.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-61566909786471913842010-11-24T14:20:44.459-08:002010-11-24T14:20:44.459-08:00Senior Investigating Officer Stuart Henderson &quo...<i>Senior Investigating Officer Stuart Henderson "discussed the photo spread leading to the Gauci identification of Megrahi. Although no one could positively date the photograph shown to Gauci, he was reluctant to show any more photos without fear of tainting what he had already provided."</i><br /><br />The more I read this, the worse it gets.<br /><br />Imagine, you're investigating a crime, and it's very important to find out exactly who it is the witness saw on a particular occasion.<br /><br />You only have a very very bad likeness of your suspect, and your witness is pretty tentative in his comments. He doesn't say "oh yes I recognise him that's the man," he just says, well this man looks similar but is too young.<br /><br />You then manage to secure a much better picture of your suspect, in colour, with far better resolution, and known to have been taken only a year before the witness may have seen him.<br /><br />What do you do?<br /><br />If you're really after the truth, you set up another ID session, this time using the better picture. (And you make sure to follow proper best practice this time.) Surely, if the witness does have a good memory of the person he saw, he'll jump on the good likeness and say, oh yes that's him!<br /><br />On the other hand, if you think your witness has a poor memory of the person he saw, or that his memory is of someone fairly unlike your suspect (in fact more like the bad likeness than the real person), and you don't care a button for truth, just for getting a conviction - you do what Henderson did.<br /><br />You don't show your good likeness to your witness. You stick legalistically to the "fact" that he picked out the poor likeness, and brazen it out.<br /><br />It's disgusting.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-37622473440225205042010-11-24T14:10:01.007-08:002010-11-24T14:10:01.007-08:00Pete's point about the three-card-trick with t...Pete's point about the three-card-trick with the age estimate is a very good one, that I didn't pick up on immediately.<br /><br />Tony said the clothes buyer was about 50, right at the start, when nobody had any preconceptions or was trying to push him in any particular direction.<br /><br />Then they started showing him a lot of pictures of 30-something guys, possibly because all the suspects they came up with were that age. (Why the terrorists couldn't just have sent Uncle Aziz to buy the clothes for them, nobody really explained.)<br /><br />Tony was very willing to pick out pictures of clean-shaven Arab-looking men with big hair, as "resembling" the purchaser, and did so on several occasions. But every time he said, looked like that but this guy is too young. Including on one occasion when the picture he chose was of a guy of 47.<br /><br />On 15th February 1991 it went much the same way. No these guys are all too young. Oh well just imagine if they were 10 to 15 years older. OK that one [points to one that looks very like the photofit he produced earlier....] but I estimate that he's in his 30s, and the guy I saw was about 10 to 15 years older.<br /><br />Tony is quite clearly sticking to his "about 50" estimate here. He doesn't just say "ten to fifteen years older", he says "ten to fifteen years older, on the basis that this is a guy in his thirties".<br /><br />But then the investigators decide that the picture is in fact of a man of 26.<br /><br />So, Tony said this was like the purchaser, but ten (to fifteen) years too young. This photo is Megrahi at 26. He was 36 when Tony (allegedly) saw him. Bingo, a result. Fourteen years disappear in a puff of logic.<br /><br />That's really quite cunning.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351904589099176534.post-994675478358647172010-11-24T13:51:33.392-08:002010-11-24T13:51:33.392-08:00the quality of the Czech photo is worth wondering ...<i>the quality of the Czech photo is worth wondering about. If the other 11 pictures he was shown that day were all normally clear and this one only looked strange, might that itself be leading?</i><br /><br />This part is dealt with in the expert witness reports. Look at section 8.17.3 of Tim Valentine's report. They tried to make the pictures match by degrading the quality of the others, but in Prof Valentine's opinion this was not an unqualified success and "Megrahi's" picture stands out as the only one with a markedly grainy quality.<br /><br />He talks about this, about the fact that all the policemen knew which was the suspect's picture and so could have put out unconscious clues, and about Tony rejecting all the pictures at first because the men are too young.<br /><br />He just doesn't mention that the photo alleged to be of Megrahi looks no more like Megrahi than I do (OK, that bit's poetic licence....)Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.com